Comment on Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity by Jacob.
Hi Giorgi,
Please review what I said. All Orthodox celebrate on December 25, just some celebrate December 25th according to the Gregorian calendar, and some celebrate according to the Julian calendar. December 25 on the Julian calendar (which is used my most Orthodox) happens to be January 7th on the Gregorian calendar.
Wes, because the Messiah has come, every day is the Sabbath. This is the Christian teaching. We gather on Sunday (which is not a Christian term, by the way, but a pagan one) because it is the eighth day, that is, the day of the new creation inaugurated by the resurrection of Christ, through which death and sin have been abolished.
Much of what you are writing shows a lack of basic understanding of Orthodox Christian theology. Much of what you are arguing against here has nothing to do with what we teach. Of course God is loving. More than that though, the New Testament actually explicitly says that God is Love. Please go learn some basic Orthodox Christian teaching.
Orthodox Christians believe that the Law has been fulfilled in the sense that the Messiah Jesus has brought humanity back into paradise, i.e. communion with God. The Law, as our Fathers teach, is life giving, however the context for the giving of the Law was also a world which was separated from God. For example, the priesthood began in part as a reaction against the sin of the Golden Calf. Therefore, the priesthood, because it was a reaction to sin, is imperfect. It is not a part of the Kingdom of God, in which humans are united to God.
Along similar lines, in the Stone Edition Chumash, there is a comment about circumcision that says that circumcision is performed as a reminder of what life was like before humanity was exiled from paradise. So… when Messiah brings humanity back to Eden, will circumcision still be performed?
Christians, because they participate in the life of the Kingdom of God here and now, are not bound by the Law, because the Law was a tutor to bring people to the Messianic age. I am speaking here of Orthodox, Apostolic Christians. I do not speak for Christians who are not Orthodox because they do not share the same Apostolic Faith and Life.
In other words, the Life in Christ is the Life of the World to come.
Of course we have to keep the commandments. This is repeated over and over again in the New Testament, even by Paul, whom you do not understand because you do not know the teachings of the Orthodox Church, which is the context in which Paul was writing.
I do not know much about the similarities between the Osiris story and the New Testament. I am sure that they matter, but perhaps not in the way you think. But I do not know much about it and I don’t really feel the need to go into it. The main question that you need to answer is, who was/is Jesus, and are the claims about Him true, especially of the Resurrection? Did you know that there is an Orthodox Jewish professor who has written a book making the case that Jesus rose from the dead?
Jesus’ disciples willingly suffered martyrdom because they were witnesses to the resurrected Christ. They even ate with Him and touched Him. So.. why? Many people will die for an ideology. The martyrs, however, died for an event. The event that they witnessed is the resurrection of Jesus. This is the ultimate form of testimony. These are the same apostles who, after Jesus had died, went back to their homes to do their normal business, and then, bam, they were preaching the resurrection, a preaching which was sealed in their martyrdom. Blind faith? No. Instead, the Faith of Christ is the only Faith by which man can truly see and know and worship the one true God as He truly is.
Jacob Also Commented
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
Also with regards to the stoning, I could be wrong but I don’t think that the woman in question was tried according to the standards of the law. It appears to be sort of a mob action more than a carrying out of justice. It’s worth notice that according to the rabbinic teaching on the Sanhedrin, it was nearly impossible for them to put someone to death. So the stoning of the adulterous woman seems inconsistent with the rabbinic teaching on the Jewish code of Justice and the Jewish ethical requirements of a Sanhedrin (which don’t seem to even appear in the story indicated that the woman probably didn’t even get a trial… although I am not sure if women were afforded the same legal protection as men in actual practice at that time).
I understand your frustration, and a lot of what you’re saying makes sense (especially the part about apparently God giving the Law when the Hebrew people didn’t stand a chance, even though the text explicitly says that it is within reach).
However, your post also indicates that despite everything I’ve said, you are still arguing with things that the Orthodox Church simply doesn’t teach, for example your statement above about us not being held accountable for our lawlessness.
I have spent a long time learning Jewish teaching, from the Jewish sources, reading different commentaries, listening to rabbis speak, even going to classes. Obviously I am not an Orthodox Jew, so I do not understand as well as someone who is in that type of community, but I think I have a very good foundational understanding of Judaism and how Jews understand themselves, God, and the Torah.
No one here was spitting on Judaism, which in my opinion has a long and noble tradition of serious thought and scholarship which would make the discussion here much more productive. The author of the post was simply comparing our teaching of the messiah with yours. This is not a judgemental statement, but a theological (and maybe speculative?) one.
As for your statement about ‘all of Christianity‘ being right, I think you are being a little unfair here. Suppose some random person stood up in the park and said, “Judaism teaches that UFOs came to earth and sent the Torah to Israel as a joke”, and another Jew said that that is ridiculous, would you think it fair for someone else to say, “no, either all of Judaism is correct, or none of it is”? Clearly, the UFO fanatic is not representing Judaism. So in terms of what ‘Christianity’ teaches, one must first figure out who is actually qualified and authoritative to speak on such issues. Even then, there is some wiggle room for personal opinions, as there is in the observant Jewish communities today. I’m convinced that the Orthodox Church is the Apostolic Church and is therefore the authentic representative of Jesus’ teachings.
I think that you may be right about the debate going on here. Perhaps it is unfruitful. It would probably be better to be humble and ask God to show us reality and the truth. I am not offended that you think Christianity is Pagan. That is your theological opinion. I do think however that it is possible to discuss these things in a fruitful way (though this is probably more difficult over the internet).
I am glad that you find life in the commandments. I pray that God will grant you a greater abundance of life, peace, and joy, and that God continues to draw all of us more and more into the Truth of who He really is.
Best,
Jacob
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
Wes nothing you’re saying is new. read this: http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/PelphreyChristmasP2.php
