Comment on Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity by Jacob.
Hi Giorgi,
Just a slight correction. All Orthodox celebrate the Feast of the Messiah’s Nativity on December 25, it is just that some celebrate it on Dec. 25 according to the Julian calendar, while others celebrate it on Dec. 25 according to the Gregorian calendar. So, for clarities sake, let it be known that no one really celebrates it on Jan. 4.
Also, to the best of my knowledge, the date was chosen not because it is closer to when Jesus was actually born.. There were other factors going in to play. The Church did not celebrate the Nativity on Dec. 25 until the time of St. Constantine the Great. Prior to that, the Nativity and Theophany were celebrated as one holiday.
As for Jesus being the Sun in ‘disguise’, the opposite is true. Jesus has taught those who engaged in Sun worship to cast off their idolatry and worship the God of Israel. This is the troparion from the Feast of the Nativity:
“Thy nativity O Christ our God, shined the light of knowledge upon the world. Whereby they that worshipped the stars were instructed by a star to worship Thee, the Sun of Righteousness and to know Thee the Dayspring from on high. O Lord, glory be to Thee.”
Wes, yes, of course it refers to Israel. We know that, as did the writers of the New Testament. That reading of the text is very in keeping with the teaching of the Church.
Orthodox Christianity teaches that God created all things through His Word and vivifies the creation through His spirit. Jewish theology looks very similar here. Let’s take the logical steps: 1) There was never a time when God was without His Word. The universe was created through God’s Word (the Midrash Rabbah calls the Torah, before creation, the ‘nursling’ of God and the blueprint of creation). This means that the Torah is uncreated. However, there is only one which is uncreated – God. Therefore, in Jewish theology, the Torah is God by nature. I have had an Orthodox Jewish rabbi confirm this.
I would encourage you to take a deeper look into Orthodox Christian teaching and history.
Jacob Also Commented
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
Also with regards to the stoning, I could be wrong but I don’t think that the woman in question was tried according to the standards of the law. It appears to be sort of a mob action more than a carrying out of justice. It’s worth notice that according to the rabbinic teaching on the Sanhedrin, it was nearly impossible for them to put someone to death. So the stoning of the adulterous woman seems inconsistent with the rabbinic teaching on the Jewish code of Justice and the Jewish ethical requirements of a Sanhedrin (which don’t seem to even appear in the story indicated that the woman probably didn’t even get a trial… although I am not sure if women were afforded the same legal protection as men in actual practice at that time).
I understand your frustration, and a lot of what you’re saying makes sense (especially the part about apparently God giving the Law when the Hebrew people didn’t stand a chance, even though the text explicitly says that it is within reach).
However, your post also indicates that despite everything I’ve said, you are still arguing with things that the Orthodox Church simply doesn’t teach, for example your statement above about us not being held accountable for our lawlessness.
I have spent a long time learning Jewish teaching, from the Jewish sources, reading different commentaries, listening to rabbis speak, even going to classes. Obviously I am not an Orthodox Jew, so I do not understand as well as someone who is in that type of community, but I think I have a very good foundational understanding of Judaism and how Jews understand themselves, God, and the Torah.
No one here was spitting on Judaism, which in my opinion has a long and noble tradition of serious thought and scholarship which would make the discussion here much more productive. The author of the post was simply comparing our teaching of the messiah with yours. This is not a judgemental statement, but a theological (and maybe speculative?) one.
As for your statement about ‘all of Christianity’ being right, I think you are being a little unfair here. Suppose some random person stood up in the park and said, “Judaism teaches that UFOs came to earth and sent the Torah to Israel as a joke”, and another Jew said that that is ridiculous, would you think it fair for someone else to say, “no, either all of Judaism is correct, or none of it is”? Clearly, the UFO fanatic is not representing Judaism. So in terms of what ‘Christianity’ teaches, one must first figure out who is actually qualified and authoritative to speak on such issues. Even then, there is some wiggle room for personal opinions, as there is in the observant Jewish communities today. I’m convinced that the Orthodox Church is the Apostolic Church and is therefore the authentic representative of Jesus’ teachings.
I think that you may be right about the debate going on here. Perhaps it is unfruitful. It would probably be better to be humble and ask God to show us reality and the truth. I am not offended that you think Christianity is Pagan. That is your theological opinion. I do think however that it is possible to discuss these things in a fruitful way (though this is probably more difficult over the internet).
I am glad that you find life in the commandments. I pray that God will grant you a greater abundance of life, peace, and joy, and that God continues to draw all of us more and more into the Truth of who He really is.
Best,
Jacob
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
Wes nothing you’re saying is new. read this: http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/PelphreyChristmasP2.php
