Comment on Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity by Wes.
Alright let me give you the opinion of how a jewish person views this replacement theology that christianity practices. Christians hold that not only is the torah REPLACED by a new covenant but that it is obsolete/on it’s way to vanishing (Hebrews 8:13). Then the new testament says that the torah brings death instead of life which contradicts jewish theology (2 Corinthians 3:6). Then christians even label the law as a curse which the jewish people absolutely do not believe (Galatians 3:13). The entire book of galatians is offensive to any jewish person because judaism is called legalism and even stupid (galatians 3:1-5). Christianity is not a part of the jewish religion. It’s even anti jewish or anti torah. Your new testament itself even says so calling the torah legalistic and stupid. That not only is an insult to jewish people but an insult to the creator who gave the laws to moses in the first place!
Christianity basically is saying that god gave the torah to the jewish people on purpose knowing that they could never ever fulfill it and so his chosen people were created doomed in the first place lol? Christianity at every turn trys to make judaism look obsolete. The Torah says that it is “not too hard for thee, neither is it far off”. Christian theology contradicts the torah in regards to it’s thoughts on the law. Not only that but the tanahk says that you are not to add to or take away from the law. Christianity has broken the commands of the torah in this fashion as well saying that some of it is abolished or fulfilled.
Again no matter how much christians to try to reinterpret the covenant of the jewish people or twist scripture to make it look fulfilled I cannot tell you how wrong christians are when they say that the torah and all of it’s commands are not an eternal covenant. If you wan’t to believe in some sun god then thats fine but don’t steal jewish scripture to do it.
Let me give you a torah lesson. Exodus 31:17 says that the 7th day sabbath is “a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested”. Now having read that how can you say that the sabbath is everyday when the torah says that the 7th day is a sign between the creator and the Israelites to be kept forever? Any biblical scripture that contradicts the idea of the sabbath day being abolished is not a part of the torah so it also is not from g-d. Funny how christians contradict exodus with their own teachings.
Deuteronomy 4:40 says…”Thou shall keep therefore his statutes, his commandments, which i commanded thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the lord thy g-d giveth thee FOREVER”.
Deuteronomy 4:2 says…”Ye shall not add unto the word which I commanded you, neither shall thee diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the lord your g-d which I command you”.
Deuteronomy 5:29 says…”O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children FOREVER”.
Deuteronomy 12:32 says…”What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it”.
Deuteronomy 4:8 says…”And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which i set before you this day?” (The law is righteous to g-d…not a curse)
Proverbs 7:2 says…”Keep my commandments and live: and my law as the apple of thine eye.” (g-d doesn’t seem to think the law is death here)
2 Kings 17:37 says…”And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, YE SHALL OBSERVE TO DO EVERMORE; and ye shall not fear other gods”.
The law being eternal and perfect is not a hard concept to grasp if you try. The Tanakh and the creator himself plainly states that his laws and judaism in general are an everlasting covenant.
If the new testament says anything in opposition to this then it is telling on itself in my eyes. If the new testament contradicts the torah then it is not of g-d and is not inspired scripture.
So when a christian tells me that I need jesus and that I cannot keep the law then they obviously are ignorant of what hashem said in the tanakh and are not following the same g-d of the jewish people.
Deuteronomy 30:11 says…”For the mitzvah (laws/commandments) which I am giving you today is not too hard for you, it is not beyond your reach. It isn’t in the sky so that you need to ask, ‘Who will go up to the sky for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?’ Likewise it isn’t beyond the sea, so that you need to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?’ On the contrary, the word is very close to you–in your mouth, even in your heart: therefore, you can do it!
^^ I think that just about says it all right there. The law is not a burden or a curse of any kind and can be kept. We are not helpless to the law. The only way you make yourself helpless to the law is if you decide yourself that you can’t and won’t attempt to keep it. You are not helpless. You are not a slave to the christian original sin. You could keep the law if you wanted to but you freely choose not to keep it. Grace seems easier and you really don’t have to act any different than the pagans do. After all the ONLY DIFFERENCE between the people of g-d and the gentiles/pagans is the law. If you erase the law then you have nothing left to tell the people apart and thats why g-d gave it!
Again I don’t hate christians. I know a lot of them are good people. They just have not been taught the ways of YHVH.
YHVH is not a trinity again either. I’ll prove it with the tanakh.
Numbers 23:19 says…”God is not a man that he should lie, nor THE Son OF MAN, that he should repent”.
Jesus is called the son of man so how can he claim to be g-d who in the old testament says he is not a son of man?
Furthermore the trinity concept fits in perfectly with pagan religions. The father, son, holy spirit trinity is that of a father, son, and mother. In christianity G-d is the father, jesus is the son, and mary is the holy spirit or the comforter of all mankind. Just ask the pope lol!
The pagan trinity of the gospels is nothing new.
In Egypt it was Osiris, Horus, and Isis.
In Babylon it was Nimrod, Tammuz, and Semiramis.
Hindu trinity is Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva.
The list goes on and on culture after culture. The trinity is not new. Judaism is the only monotheistic religion in the world. We hold that god is one. God does not become man and man does not become god. God is not three different people in a trinity like Aphrodite, Eros, and Pan in Greece or any other trinity that I mentioned where god has both a male and female aspects of himself lol. God is one not three. Christians just don’t understand their own concept of a trinity and where it came from originally. Please do more studying on this.
I am not telling you all of this just to be right. I’m telling you this because I think you need to understand the jewish position on monotheism and why christianity is rejected by the jews.
Wes Also Commented
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
No comments about the crimes of the churches past? That’s typical. I fail to understand why Christians when they convert someone don’t give them the honest truth about their faith. Why not tell them the good deeds the Christians have done AND the bad things? Don’t you owe these people complete honesty when you try and convert them? Are you not willing to give them the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Until I see a christian missionary convincing someone to weigh both the good and the bad when they convert someone I am going to assume they are either ignorant of church history or are blatantly bias people who will do anything like St. Paul to convert unbelievers. At least the Jewish religion doesn’t hide anything about what we believe, where we come from, or the things we have been through in the past. Maybe that’s why our religion is much smaller than Christianity. We don’t lie or tickle human ears with religious prosperity gospels to make money.
Lets not forget why I got on this page in the first place. It was the christian attack of the coming Jewish messiah. You have already judged someone you haven’t even met yet. You don’t even understand who the true Jewish messiah was suppose to be in Jewish prophecy because the christian churches have reinterpreted what the definition of a messiah is suppose to be. You have made the christian messiah a demigod when in actuality he is just a regular man anointed by g-d to accomplish a task like Moses or Joshua.
In christian prophecy the anti messiah is actually a supernatural being with seemingly unlimited power and sometimes even satan in human form himself who claims to be g-d in the flesh.
This theology breaks Jewish law because the Jews believe their messiah to be just a regular guy. Not only that but any man or messiah who claims to be g-d himself is committing a terrible sin and the Jewish people would not follow him because he breaks Jewish law. So in actuality the Jewish messiah is nothing like the christian anti-messiah because he isn’t supernatural and he doesn’t claim to be g-d.
So in reality this entire debate was caused by Christian bias for their own religion who once again condemn another religion without properly understanding it beforehand. Now I’m taking things out of context and this is an attack on Christianity? Whatever…lol.
Funny how Christians when they lash out against other religions cry persecution when others simply defend themselves or show any opposition to the beliefs of your churches. I am defending the Jewish position as opposed to attacking the christian position. That’s that.
I’m still waiting for that old testament passage where G-d tells Israel that he is a trinity as well. Nobody has been able to supply that yet. I don’t view the new testament as scripture so you have to prove to me through the Tanakh that g-d is a trinity and I’m telling you that nowhere is there a passage that teaches the jews about g-d being anything more than a single entity. Only in sun worshiping religions is there a trinity.
That’s why Christ wears a crown of thorns or a corona. It’s a symbol of the rays of the sun around his head much like the halo he is wearing in much christian/catholic artwork.
That’s why Christians wear crosses. The cross is a sun symbol that divides the four seasons of the year. That’s also why there are only 4 gospels because the journey of the sun goes through twelve months or 4 seasons of the year before he dies and is reborn.
The rest of the new testament was voted on and added in by a group of men as “inspired scripture” as well at the council of nicea in 325 ad. Not all of these guys were “Christians” either. Different people from all different religions were present because the purpose of Christianity at that time was to unite the roman empire. That’s a lot of the reason the new testament is anti Jewish. You couldn’t unite the roman empire under Sabbath keeping, the Passover, and etc because the pagan believers hated those Jewish celebrations. Sunday fit in quite well though because the gentile religions of that time already worshiped the sun anyway.
The history of the new testament isn’t as inspired as you think lol.
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
One more thing….Paul speaking of course….
2 Corinthians 12:16 says….
“Let it be granted then that I was not a burden to you; but, crafty fellow that I am, I took you with trickery!”
Now he’s bragging about being a liar…lol.
Jewish concept of Messiah (Christ) is identical to our Christian concept of Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ), brief comparison of Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity
Ok I haven’t been on this page in a while but I feel like I’ve cooled down a little and am ready to discuss a few comments here.
The first thing I want to comment on is the reply right above me. Why mock Christianity so badly? Why take the time to do so if it’s not truthful? The simple answer to that question is the fact that for Christianity or any other religion for that matter to prevail would mean the death of all other religions. Judaism is not excluded from that. Now for Judaism to emerge victorious yes Christianity would have to be proven false.
The difference between Judaism/Christianity is that the Jewish people are currently waiting for g-d to send them the messiah that will free them from the pagan nations of this world. G-d is doing the work here. The Jewish people don’t have a command to convert the entire world. The Jewish people are just suppose to remain a holy set apart people until they are free of their enemies. We don’t push people to become jews. We sure don’t force them either. We just practice our Torah laws and wait patiently for our messiah to arrive.
Christianity on the other hand hasn’t been as patient as the Jewish people. Christianity unlike Judaism has a command by their pagan messiah to convert the entire world. The church in the middle ages took that to the level of any means necessary. Jewish people who refused to convert or be baptized would even be tortured or murdered. Witches and people who practice magic (which is forbidden by the torah) would be burned alive which is not something any christian in the new testament was ever commanded to do. Christians of the passed who also claimed to be spirit filled committed those terrible crimes against humanity. Even Adolf Hitler was a christian and a very antisemitic one at that. The sad thing is that even The Holocaust itself was nothing compared to how many people lost their lives over the entire middle ages period of time by the hand of christian believers.
So you see I am very fearful that these things might happen again. Christianity today isn’t nearly as bad as it was but you never hear anyone who tried to convert someone to Christianity mention the mass murder or the crimes of the churches past now do you? It’s like a bad dream the church is trying to hide or erase if possible. When blind people who are overzealous for the pagan sun god Jesus get the idea to start murdering people or torturing people until conversion is too much. I refuse to be part of a religion that won’t even admit that their churches aren’t perfect or could even be entirely wrong in their theology by calling anything that resembles Judaism stupid like in the book of Galatians.
For that matter if the christian church is suppose to be so persecuted in the end times then why is it the biggest religion in the world? If it was so truthful that the world would hate it then shouldn’t your numbers be relatively small compared to other “false” religions? Judaism holds to it’s laws and is hated by many but we never ever became so big and popular that we led an onslaught against other religions like the christian church has and hopefully never will do again but I have my worries.
So why badmouth Christianity? I think I’ve made my point.
Also about the prophecies of Christ or about any trinity I would have to say that your mistaken. The so called prophecies of Christ are just false interpretations of the Tanahk. Some of them false on purpose too I believe with my entire being. Also g-d being a trinity was something that he never revealed to the Jewish people. G-d being a single entity is what the Jews have always been taught. The concept of a trinity doesn’t show up until the the adding on of the christian covenant stuff. Show me a scripture in the OLD TESTAMENT where g-d explains himself as three parts and I’ll shut up but I can assure you that it does not exist. G-d is one unless you add on a “new covenant” which changes everything Judaism was built upon.
In Judaism there is no miraculous birth lol. The Jewish messiah is a man like you or me with flaws just like anyone else. The entire old testament is based on characters with flaws who the creator uses anyway. He never once demanded perfection of anyone before he used them.
You see the Jewish people in actuality will have more than one messiah as well. A messiah to a Jew isn’t a g-d who is also part man. The Jewish messiah is a man sent by g-d to accomplish a task or to do his will. Moses for example a Jewish person could call a messiah because he was sent by G-d to help deliver the Jewish people from the Egyptians. Joshua who was the greatest general in the history of Israel was also a Jewish messiah because he led the Jewish people to victory in battle against their enemies so that they could inhabit the land they were promised.
So you see the Jewish people are looking for someone like Moses or Joshua to lead them and be their messiah chosen by g-d to victory once again. Neither Moses or Joshua were thought to be divine. They were ordinary people who g-d used to accomplish his plan for Israel. The messiah the Jewish people are looking for in the future is a flawed man just like us but is also anointed by g-d to accomplish his will despite his imperfection and falling short of the perfect character of g-d.
Christians turned the Jewish messiah into a man-god which is a pagan idea and they haven’t looked back since lol but of course the pagan new testament isn’t going to tell you anything about that either. It claims to continue Judaism but without the one thing that makes a man a Jew…The law! The law and and the specific commandments it contains are the only difference between Jew and gentile. With the law abolished their is no way to tell the difference between the two and this is exactly what Christianity is trying to accomplish. Jesus is good but the laws that even he stood for are evil and a curse. What a joke man.
Your Christ doesn’t sound like a bad guy to me but your Christians don’t even resemble who he supposedly was or what he stood for as a Jew. I thought the point of being a christian was to be Christ like? Yes? Well then why don’t you be Christ like and practice Sabbath keeping? Or maybe celebrate the Passover? No? Oh yeah I remember Paul told you not to do silly things like that right? So maybe the purpose of being a Christian is to be Paul like then? Yeah that sounds more accurate.
I believe the character of Paul to be a false teacher who blatantly contradicts the teachings of your so called Jewish messiah.
Paul even admits that he is a liar in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22!
19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became As A Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
Paul would pretend to be anything to convert someone which is blatantly lying and not ethical in my opinion. At least I’m telling you I’m Jewish lol. I don’t pretend to be a christian to convert you to Judaism lol. Paul is ridiculous and should not be taken seriously.
I know your not liking what I’m telling you but I’m being completely honest with you. I’m not making any of this stuff up lol. I believe what I believe for a reason you know. I didn’t make this stuff up to convert you like the apostle Paul apparently did quite often. I just hope you can find it in yourselves to at least take what I’m saying into consideration.
G-d gave you a brain so that you could use it. Don’t cast it to the side and be a blind man is all that I’m asking. Study is the enemy of religion because when you study you learn that not everything they tell you is actually true or factual. My people are destroyed for their lack of knowledge it says in the bible. This is and always has been so true or not just the Jews but of all the people in every nation.
Wish you well in your studies. Shalom.
